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craig betz
Moderator
USA
357 Posts |
 Posted - 08/02/2006 : 22:25:11
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What can I say Dave I'm obsessed,heres another book!!!Missed over half the season without fishing and I decided to do a pic story that we will add to as we go.Some of this has already been post but we will follow it out to the end.I have been missing due to all the work but have taken a little time off in this heatwave and will post as it happens.
The Boat as purchased.
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80 Carver Montego,fell in love with the amount of deadrise and the carolina flare,sizeable galley,midship and vee berthing,enclosed head with pump out,dual voltage fridge,stove,sink,potable water,on board charging,shore power that made this an attractive fishing/cruiser as it is hard to do both.
Found core rot on about one third of the upper deck due to an improperly bedded water fill,suspect dash and various other areas to be damaged by something like a fallen tree branch,gel cracks and laminate fracture at stress points,delamination of the glass from the motor mounts but all in all it seemed to be a good starting point on a very fresh Continental trailer with a good stringer grid and inner liner,no dock rash(26 years hard to believe!!) and a solid hull.The whole upper deck was flexing ant the boat was headed for self destruct if operated in the rough very much.
So we eventually stripped her down to a bare fiberglass shell for a complete refit.I am an auto tech by profession and work in conjunction with some fiberglass pros at Wrangler Boats in Canal Fulton so I have resources to do this cheaper other than the $600k in lost labor hours,lol...
Here the motor mounts have been cut out and the stringer grid cut to accept a splice.The whole bilge,hull and transom have been sanded for the additional lay-up.
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We thought the belly of the Carver was a little thin for the way I use a boat and as a result we added more laminate to the hull starting with two layers of 1.5oz mat followed with two layers of biaxial mat adding about 3/16-1/4 hull thickness at the pad.
Here is a shot of the hull after lamination.
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This shows the lap joint from the hull to the outer stringer if you look close you can see the lap of both layers of biaxial on the stringer.
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Here is the lumber cut and ready to be screwed together with resin between pieces.
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Next the mounts and stringer splice are assembled and placed in position.You will notice we capped the mounts with plywood to give the actual engine mount screws better retention from the cross laminate of the plywood.If you have to lay pieces of lumber together like we did on these mounts make sure you cut the lumber so any crown in the lumber lays together when assembled.
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Next cut and fit the glass mat and roving to fit,remove and stack all pieces in reverse order of assembly so they are ready to wet out in sequence.
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First we wet out the motormount stringers and to the outboard side of each I added a panel for the outdrive trim pump,trimtab pump and the opposite side for the water pumps for the washdown,transom shower and head shower just repeating the process for each addition.Once again I can not stress enough sanding if the glass has been kicked for a few days to ensure complete bond.
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This shot shows the backer board that is screwed and laminated to the pre-existing stringer grid to reinforce the splice.Once again start with mat and finish with roving to give the strength.
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Next we added the crossbrace that locates the fuel tank ahead of the motormounts and ran biaxial once again from the hull lapped at four iinches all the way up the stringer to seal the inside of the repair.You will notice the chalky looking areas that are sanded in between operations and the glossy areas that are the current additions to the work.
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Next the gelcoat is applied to seal the work and harden the frays that will hang out of the lay-up making them easy to sand when deburring before the final gelcoat that will include pva surfacing agent.this coat can be kicked hotter at around 15-20cc per quart of gelcoat and applied with a brush and roller.
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In doing an inboard like we are you can seal the lumber at the transom cut out to help ensure water migration into the transom lumber is eliminated.Just lay it up around the perimiter and grind flush both inside and out.
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Upper cabin reinforcement 1/2 ULX laminated to add core stiffness,custom cut supports for the window frame corners in the front of the cabin.
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One third of the foredeck had core rot,common to balsa core laminates that see water,as I said it was an improperly bedded water fill that did most of the damage.To remove the core fisrt you remove the inner laminate then the balsa.You would think rotted balsa would mean easy removal?True where soaked but to get to good solid core the pros use an air chisel and take it a cut at a time.I criss cross cut the core almost into the outer laminate to make removal much easier aqt about 2 inch graduations.Unfortunately the air chisel can poke through at times.oops!
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The hatch was left intact to keep the frame supported until restructure,Bomar cast aluminum monster,lists today at around $1600.00.That made it easier to spend $150.00 for the lexan and around 80.00 for the hardware and factory gasket plus refinish which is a tossup between durabak,polyurethane and powdercoat.Just can not decide as of yet.All the trim,custom cut wing windows,poly setting tapes and slider tracking came from Marine Glass Specialties who is the only person I found who knew what we wanted.He is stocking all Water Bonnett,Taylor and a third I can not remember from 1997 and back window systems,repairs and parts.Not cheap as it was $832.00 but we rebuilt 8 complete frames with OE quality or better where applicable.
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The window frames delaminated when the glass was pulled so we ran 1.5oz mat around the perimeter ground and gelcoated to seal prior to final finish.We pulled all problems on the deck and crazing to height in the same fasion.Only around 350 spots in,out,top and bottom.I must be crazy or obsessed and will probably end up in an institution when I an done!
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We had to mock build as many things are being custom fabricated here is the dash panel,wiring harness to cabin and engine and bimini frame,opted to use pvc for template rather than mis cutting $7.00 a foot stainless.All new swirches and instrumentation from Great Lakes Skipper,a great surplus marine supplier.Custom cutting dash and switch panels from a black pebble grain carbon fiberthe perimeter is trimmed in teak as Carvers are loaded with teak and Mahogany,140 plus pieces to refinish.
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All Carling switches and vdo backmount gauges,Electronics panel is detachable with GM weatherpack and DIN connectors as are all the harnesses making them all removable with plugs.Nothing fancy but decent Garmin GPS chartplotter with Blue Chart cartography and a 250c color sonar.An Icom 302 VHF with DSC and all interlinked on NMEA serial line.All electronics including transducers and antennas will be backed up with old take out equiptment we already have.
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We are custom building a bow pulpit that will include a Genius 1000 horizontal windlass foot switching on deck and at the helm in the upper left of the dash,a planer board mast,anchor roller and search light.This shows the plywood core prior to lamination.
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Midship berthing with long stowage below.On the starboard side we added a shower sump as we are converting the head to a shower and adding a transom shower and washdown out back.
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Pulling all glass repairs to height with Napa tech base polyester.You will notice that the boat is now a bare shell other than a pain wiring harness.All drillings and cutting happened in the mock build other than the window frames.
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After blocking by hand 80 grit for what seemed forever we shot the whole upper deck with polyester resin primer frome Advance Coatings and threw a coat of tracer to show the imperfections on the next block coat.The tracer is basically a red/purple laquer.
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Gunnel to gunnel tackle stowage above the powertrain,took relocating the pumps for sterdrive and tabs to the in bilge shelves along with the water pumps.Tough sanding all the steps to make the corners that were crazed.The perimeter was constructed of 1/2ULX 2 lavers of 1.5 oz mat and one layer of 1708 biaxial.
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The first image is a repair primed and traced and second is blocked to being ready for a glaze of USC Thin Ice Glazing polyester.
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Now the whole upper deck has been blocked AGAIN!!!and all minor imperfectioms are filled and blocked AGAIN!!!That is the light blue cast that is starting to show up.It is the glazing that fills the maroon lows left from the tracer.The portside of the cabin is where the deck rot was and needed much more straightening than starboard.Fortunately the hull was good and a good buff and some minor gel repairs will get'r'done.You will notice the chalked look to the gelcoat now as it has neen sanded to deburr and take off the highs.The bilge all compartments and anchor locker will all get a waxed gel as the final finish but that is after topside paint so we dont fight overspray,infact it can be used as a cheater tracer when rough sanding prior to the application of the durabak.All the brownish fiber glass repair spoys will be gelcoat covered like the window frames prior to final finish.All exposed edges of the laminate and any lumber have been glass encapsulated and sealed.
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Don't worry dear once we get past this rough water it will flatten out.
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DOUBLE EAGLE
Professional Fisherman
USA
1063 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 04:54:45
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| CRAIG, LOOKS LIKE A WINTER PROJECT TO ME. WHAT A JOB,LOOKS GREAT!! I CAN RELATE SOMEWHAT AS TO ALL THAT GLASS WORK AS I MOVED MY GAS TANK FORWARD IN MY GRADY 228G AND LEARNED WHAT IT WAS TO WORK WITH GLASS SOME. I AM SURE THE END RESULTS WILL BE WORTH IT. THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR PROJECT, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE FINISHED PROJECT. IT'S GOING TO BE ONE SWEET BOAT WHEN YOUR DONE AND IT'S GOOD TO SEE IT WAS SAVED FROM THE BONE YARD. THANKS CRAIG!!! |
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baitdave
Forum Admin
USA
1526 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 07:51:34
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Geez Craig ,,,,,,,,,,,,,Ya make me want to go out and buy a boat just to take you fishing!!!!
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Pass The Fun Of Fishing On! |
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ole pete
Master Fisherman
USA
246 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 07:53:01
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| All this time we've been talking about how anal you are, but I plum forgot you like to troll in the wake of waterspouts. I guess all that hard work will come handy under your normal operating conditions. What an undertaking Craig. Once you get it in the water, just have your mail forwarded to me and I'll run it up to you weekly. |
Don't worry bout the horse, just load the wagon! www.olepetestackle.com |
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MaxedOut
Superior Fisherman
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 21:02:51
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Craig.... what are you thinking man??? One of the best walleye seasons of our lifetime and your working on a boat in your garage? Don told me but I did not believe him. And all this time I thought you and Erie were one and the same.
And that's a winter job like Rod said!!!
Now listen... put the tools away...go grab your gear... you still have a few months left. and GO FISHING! NOW!!!!
Nice to have you back.
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Drift Bag
Expert Fisherman
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 21:05:59
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From the looks of it, you are going to have to name her "Four Years Later"!  |
Missing:
Husband, fishing pole and dog.
Reward for dog! |
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craig betz
Moderator
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 22:51:21
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| It started as a winter project Max but I got a "little" into making it right...lol.Our last project boat took two years and that is where that four years later comment came from my lovely bride Drift Bag.About three hard nights would put the Formula together but I have always loved staying on the water and the torture is worth it.An Inverter and cabin heat will allow us to sail until ice-over.My personal best trip was December two years ago with six at 58.5,would love to have them for any tourney.Surprising to me at the time was that it happend at Gorden Park.21 degrees on the way home and the lake was rough firm 3-5's but the fish could have been walked on from what the sonar showed,all 10-30 yards off shore for the best part,you know the routine.Shes an old pig but the lines look good and a total refit with everything attended will put us at around 14k including trailer,minus 600k lost labor hours.Hope to get in on Dave's next tourney and finally meet but we will not have our boat. |
Don't worry dear once we get past this rough water it will flatten out.
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ole pete
Master Fisherman
USA
246 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 23:00:14
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| Hey Craig, missed your call while down in the basement, also still cleaning up after water damage. Will call tomorrow. Good to see you're still hanging in there Drifty. Four years later might be right at this rate. I'll bet down the road though, it'll be like the old band and look good as new, "Ten Years After." |
Don't worry bout the horse, just load the wagon! www.olepetestackle.com |
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Drift Bag
Expert Fisherman
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 07:05:17
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Knowing my "anal" husband, it will be a perfect Lake Erie vessel. Bring on them waterspouts! It was just a bummer we didn't even test drive it, before he started tearing it apart.  |
Missing:
Husband, fishing pole and dog.
Reward for dog! |
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DOUBLE EAGLE
Professional Fisherman
USA
1063 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2006 : 10:00:08
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| PETE, YOUR SHOWING YOUR AGE WITH THAT TEN YEARS AFTER STUFF!!!!!!! I WOULD LOVE TO TACKLE A JOB LIKE THAT, BUT QUITE THAT INVOLVED. LOOKS LIKE FUN TO ME. TOO BAD I DON'T LIVE CLOSER I WOULD BE A VOLUNTEER HELPER JUST TO LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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ole pete
Master Fisherman
USA
246 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2006 : 10:26:03
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| Yeah, the "ole" doesn't stand for the Latin Oil Pete, nor does it stand for the Spanish Bravo Pete, or the darn French Oleo? Pete as Grandma used to call margerine. It's the dam Englsih adjective, Old Pete. What can I say. Thought you'd be up on the big water today. |
Don't worry bout the horse, just load the wagon! www.olepetestackle.com |
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ozdog
Expert Fisherman
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2006 : 20:38:52
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Craig if your fishing the spouts don't forget to install the OS handles on your boat!
Nice work man!
Oz |
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craig betz
Moderator
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2006 : 21:12:47
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| I have a big round os handle on my side,hmmm,but my loving wife Drift Bag gets whatever would be left of the bimini frame,maybe theres a secondary motive to installing nylon rather than stainless ends for the sacrificial element.Actually Carver did not supply anything other than the seat for the passenger and Drifty will get something,maybe a placebo wheel would be best...lol... |
Don't worry dear once we get past this rough water it will flatten out.
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craig betz
Moderator
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 03:10:50
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Just ate supper 2am...lol..The bottom is sanded and ready for repairs.Found some osmosis,blisters in the gelcoat from water intrusion.Just what I wanted,more work!!
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Opened up the blisters and found air which is common in tight corners of a lay-up between the gelcoat and glass.Now I must decide on how to approach this,it follows the strake,outboard edge only and runs about 8 feet.
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A swim platform,transducers,pitot tube,trim tabs,ventilation drain and tie downs have the transom quite busy.I'm removing all previous drillings for the transducers and pitot and adding a bilge plug,origional went through the bottom of the hull which is being removed.Area is ground to a depth of around 1/4 inch and all holes will be filled before being glassed over.Rectangles are easier to work with when cutting and grinding in my opinion,so you will notice my repairs to have that shape in most instances.
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Upper deck blocking is ready for second primer coat for final block.
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Don't worry dear once we get past this rough water it will flatten out.
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bigmtman
Professional Fisherman
USA
1220 Posts |
 Posted - 08/18/2006 : 11:23:53
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| Craig-what a undertaking this job is.Great job on the boat and if you need something made or modified for your boat I am a machinist by trade so draw up a blue print and get a hold of me,it might take 1-3 days to get it done while us guys make stuff all the time for our fishing boats during lunch brakes etc.I am here if you need me. |
Thanks Mark Butler - ( Let Christ be your light house ) |
Edited by - bigmtman on 08/18/2006 11:25:39 |
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craig betz
Moderator
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 13:51:04
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| Thanks Mark,appreciate the offer.The same holds true for any info on structural repairs or Mercruiser powertrain,we will try to help nyone who asks. |
Don't worry dear once we get past this rough water it will flatten out.
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bigmtman
Professional Fisherman
USA
1220 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 00:38:36
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| Anytime for any body I can help out. |
Thanks Mark Butler - ( Let Christ be your light house ) |
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craig betz
Moderator
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 20:11:24
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Not much happened with the last two weeks,fished the DBT tournament and my 10 year old spent his last few weeks of summer with us.But I did deal with the blistering on the outboard side of the inner strakes and more upper deck sanding.When the glass is laid in a mold on the gelcoat it is not uncommon to get air voids between the gelcoat and lay-up unless a bonding putty is spread into the tight corners and it appears Carver did not do that step resulting in voids beneath the gelcoat as I showed in the last post.So we ground the length of the inner strakes,outers were ok the angle was less severe,and laminated mat to bring things back to height.
This ran almost the full length.
In the fisrt two pics you will notice we blended the radius but left the layup to hang rather than roll the edge because the outer was all that was failed and it is tough to roll tight corners and eliminate all the air.Next you cut the excess with a phenolic wheel in a die grinder to preprep for sanding.
Then you sand to blend into the hull.
Once all is blended a filler is spread to fill lows and pinholes,fiberglass laminate is full of them.
And sanded again to pull to height along with forming the lower radius.
Now the repair is ready for gelcoat and a final sand before moisture barrier and bottom paint. |
Don't worry dear once we get past this rough water it will flatten out.
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Edited by - craig betz on 08/26/2006 20:13:25 |
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DOUBLE EAGLE
Professional Fisherman
USA
1063 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 20:27:24
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| LOOK EN GOOD CRAIG!!!! KEEP US POSTED. TOO BAD ITS NOT A TV SHOW!!! YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB SHOWING EVERY THING. I LOOKED ON THE MAP AND HAVE A GOOD IDEA OF WHERE YOU ARE. I USE THE ROAD JUST SOUTH OF YOURS WHEN CROSSING 21. |
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craig betz
Moderator
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 20:40:46
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Thanks DE,you must be coming over from Deerfield rd to Arcadia?Will hit it heavy tomorrow,some of my time today was with the customer pay boat I repowered,just what I wanted to do on a Saturday but that vessel is 99% ready to go,thank God.Now I have a 1978 Vette chassis build and a 1992 Accura Legend engine r/r,followed by a engine r/r on a 1992 Vette,between all the normal day to day quickies.Why is No so tuff to say when it is only two letters?
Especially after last week,now all I want to do is get back out asap!! |
Don't worry dear once we get past this rough water it will flatten out.
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Edited by - craig betz on 08/26/2006 20:43:13 |
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craig betz
Moderator
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2006 : 02:13:23
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As shown earlier transom looked like swiss cheese from all prior electronics and pitot mounts,here all holes have been bedded for repair by filling prior to grinding for fiberglassing.Luckily water had not taken out the transom,hard to believe on a boat of this age.
Next glass is faired to origional height and filler is used to remove slight imperfections and pinholes.
Then moisture barrier,Interlux 2000/2001e ,is applied to seal the transom,it will total at around 4-5 coats of all below the waterline surfaces.Masking around the transom plate area is where the gelcoat will be repaired as you want around an inch of margin between the alblative bottom paint,Interlux VC17 in our project,and the lower unit to ensure that the discharge effect is obtained.The albaltive can not touch the transom plate and still work.
Next our attention was directed to the cabin where flexing had occured in the past.We ran biaxial on the origional layup and then foamed it with A/B marine foam faired it with filler and ran more biaxial roving on the outside.This created a structural beam so to speak and greatly strengthened the cabin top,the repair is where the lime green filler shows through.It also created an easier surface to work with other than a reverse radius when attaching the headliner.
The same approach was utilized in the lower cabin window areas.
Next the port cabinside was shot with a final blocking prime coat and will be glazed for any blemishes and pinholes missed.The boat needed to be dropped as far as the yard arms would allow to gain clearance from the cieling to shoot the dash and topside areas,so the bottom is on hold until she is painted.But that necessitates complete finish and dust removal from all of the cabin,bilge and stringer grid to keep the final finishes dust free.
Here all of the rear deck and cabin glass repairs are sanded to accept the fillers that will fair to height.
Filler is ran on all repairs.
More layup,the tank support panel is cut and glassed both sides,then the hull and the bottom of the panel are final gelcoated with a PVA added and the panel is tabbed and eventually taped into place with more 1708 biaxial roving.
And a panel for the Vetus flexible water storage bladder is cut glassed,gelled bottom side once again and taped in the same fashion to the hull and front of the inner stringer grid.
The locker for the anchor rode,in the foremost section of the bow, was going to allow water to drainback into the stringer grid and compartments so it got completely sealed off to be its own compartment but the confined area made pics impossible,infact I could not even get in there to do layup with a respirator and will probably suffer permanent "dain brammage" as a result...lol..even with fans and ventilation.
The repair on the cabin floor where we found balsa core rot consisted of making two stringers that run the length of the sole and are matted and eventually laid up with biaxial roving around the whole perimeter and will be covered with a new floor piece.Here the front is laminated in place to both the liner and the hull.
We converted an enclosed head to a shower and that required a drained floor as well as a sump for prefiltering hair and the like before being pumped out.We laminated a wall on each end of the sump by closing off the stringer grid cut the square for a plastic grid that will mount in the shower floor and ground glassed,filled and prepped for finish which will first be gelled and then topcoated with Durabak18 A moisture cured polyurethane.
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Don't worry dear once we get past this rough water it will flatten out.
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Edited by - craig betz on 09/19/2006 02:17:29 |
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Why I'm missing
